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1 Q. And Officer Duncan is the same Officer Duncan who just walked out the door; is that correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What was James doing?

5 A. When?

6 Q. I'm sorry? What was James doing at that time whenever you were around and everybody was around after the trial?

9 A. He was waiting for the elevator.

10 Q. Okay. Was he saying anything?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Could you make out anything he was saying?

13 A. Some of the stuff I could make out, but I couldn't make out everything that he was saying.

15 Q. Okay. And whatever he was saying, did he ever make a move or appear that he was directing this at any of the attorneys?

18 A. No.

19 Q. And did you perceive that he committed a crime when he was there?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Had he committed a crime, would you have had any hesitation to arrest him?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Do you arrest people when you witness a crime?

CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Did you ever hear any of the attorneys and caseworkers sort of talking together and conferring with each other about that Mr. Brown had threatened them?

5 A. After he left they were laughing about him saying something to the fact of he knew where they lived.

8 Q. They were laughing?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Did you have an occasion to witness any part of the trial itself?

12 A. A little bit, but I don't really -- it was like towards the end.

14 Q. Did you ever see the district attorney and the attorney ad litem laughing in the courtroom?

16 A. No.

17 MS. HALL: Pass the witness.

18 CROSS-EXAMINATION

19 BY MR. WILLIAMS:

20 Q. Officer, let me ask, were you called as a witness in this criminal trial?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And you testified just as you have today?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Now, were you contacted by the defense CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR

1 attorney, Mr. Frank Ivy?

2 A.I believe so.

3 Q. And Mr. Brown has indicated that his attorney railroaded him and implied to me, at least, that he was in league with the prosecutor or didn't do a good job.

6 Is that your impression from what part you met of Mr. Ivy -- what you observed of Mr. Ivy?

8 A. I was only in there a short period of time so I couldn't really tell you.

10 Q. But did it look to you like he was in league with the prosecution?

12 MS. HALL: Objection. I don't think the witness is competent to answer that.

14 THE COURT: Sustained.

15 Q, (BY MR. WILLIAMS) He was alert, though, in asking questions that appeared to favor Mr. Brown; is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And you indicated that the attorneys were laughing. Is that that nervous laughter that we often times tend to do when we are scared but trying to put up a great front?

23 A. No. They were just laughing. I didn't feel they were scared at all.

25 Q. You didn't feel like they were scared at all.

CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. All right. So a prosecutor who believes that their life has been threatened, it's not unreasonable for them to file charges, is it?

5 A. No, it's not.

6 MR. WILLIAMS: I pass the witness.

7 MS. LEVAY: Pass the witness.

8 MS. OCHOA: No questions, Your Honor.

9 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

10 BY MS. HALL:

11 Q. Was it reasonable for Ms. Joseph or anybody to think that they were being threatened?

13 A. While I was there I didn't feel like he was a threat because I was there with the district attorneys.

15 So I didn't believe it was a threat. And I didn't make out -- I couldn't make out what he was saying because he was rallying off and he was angry. And through my experience, through a termination, if you lose a child they are usually a little mad. And I just let them get off their steam. But I didn't hear any threats. If it was, I didn't hear them.

22 Q. If you felt you would have saw a crime committed, you wouldn't have hesitated to place them under arrest, would you?

25 A. I wouldn't have hesitated at all. I would have CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR

1 handcuffed him and put him in jail.

2 ' Q. If you would have heard something about "I know where you live," would that had impacted at all your perception of the threat?

5 A. If I would have heard that, I would have probably arrested him. But I did not hear that.

7 MR. WILLIAMS: No further questions.

8 MR. LEVAY: No questions.

9 MS. OCHOA: No questions.

10 THE COURT: You can step down. Thank you.

11 (Witness exits courtroom) 12 MS. HALL: I now call Officer Arnold.

13 (Witness sworn) 14 PORSHE ARNOLD, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows: 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION

17 BY MS. HALL:

18 Q. Good morning, Officer Arnold. Would you please state your name for the record?

20 A. Porshe Arnold.

21 Q. How do you spell your first name?

22 A. P-o-r-s-h-e.

23 Q. How are you employed?

24 A. I'm a deputy sheriff with the Travis County Sheriff's Office.

CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR

1 elevators, and the caseworkers were at the bench, and I was at the far end of the bench close to the stairs.

3 Q. (BY MS. HALL) Would you say that you were closer to James and his mother than the caseworkers were

5 or farther?

6 A. Farther.

7 Q. So they were closer than you?

8 A. Yes, ma'am.

9 Q. And did you perceive James to commit a crime that day?

11 A. He was in violation in the sense that he was threatening.

13 Q. He was threatening?

14 A. Yes, ma'am.

15 Q. Do you feel that he should have been arrested right then and there?

17 A. Had he done an overt act, yes, I would have arrested him then and there. We were trying to keep the peace.

20 Q. Did he direct any threats to any of the caseworkers?

22 A. I know that he said specific language to state, "I know where you work." Things of that nature.

24 Q. Okay. And did -- was it directed -- did he move bodily towards any of these caseworkers?

CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR 1 A. He was swaying back and forth, walking back and forth. I know that he was upset, because the elevators took so long, and the longer he waited, the louder his voice got.

5 Q. Okay. And did he physically approach any of the caseworkers?

7 A. No, ma'am.

8 Q. Did you see the caseworkers after James left?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Did you see them talking and conferring among one another or hear anything about what they said about that he was threatening them and they should call it in?

13 A. I didn't see that part, ma'am, because I followed him downstairs. He took the elevator and I took the stairs to make sure he vacated the building.

16 Q. So did you see them laughing about what he had done?

18 A. I know they were conversing, but I'm not sure if they were laughing.

20 Q. Did they seem shaken up?

21 A. They were concerned.

22 MS. HALL: Pass the witness.

23 CROSS-EXAMINATION

24 BY MR. WILLIAMS:

25 Q. Sergeant Sloan, isn't it unfortunately true -- CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR 1 MR. LEVAY: Pass the witness.

2 CROSS-EXAMINATION

3 BY MS. OCHOA:

4 Q. Hi, Sergeant Sloan. I just have one question, You testified that you walked down the stairs while he was taking the elevator so you could make sure you escorted him outside the building or vacated building?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Is that normal for you to do that?

10 A. Yes, it is.

11 Q. Okay.

12 MS. OCHOA: No further questions.

13 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

14 BY MS. HALL:

15 Q. I just want to clear up something. Okay. So did you pretty much go on the stairs as soon as he and his mom got in the elevator?

18 A. Yes.

19 v. Q. So you didn't see the caseworkers, or who you are calling the caseworkers, talking afterwards?

21 A. No. Because I followed him.

22 Q. Okay. Thank you, Officer.

23 MR. WILLIAMS: No further questions.

24 MR. LEVAY: No further questions.

25 MS. OCHOA: No questions.

CAROLYNN WEBER, CSR, RPR